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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm considering buying a Kahr MK. However, I really can't decide if I should go with the 40 or the 9. Also, none of the LGS here have any and you can't really appreciate the difference by looking at the website. Does anyone have any photos showing the difference between the matte finish and the polished finish? Also, between the regular sights and the night sights?
I also see that the 40 is about .04" thicker than the 9, is this noticeable?
 

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Tough questions to answer but here's my take: Don't expect their highly polished finish to be bright like chrome. It is a "notch" brighter than the matt finish but with the proper equipment, you can polish it to a much brighter shine. I recently acquired a K9 Elite 98 (I'm in the 10 day wait period for clearance) and I did not see the finish as highly polished. When I get it, I can post a photo of this gun against my PM9 and CW45 both with a matt finish.

Night sights on other guns are, to me, only so-so. Don't expect to see them glow like an LED. I am totally indifferent to night sights and will not consider them as a deal breaker or a must have feature.

The thickness of the slides between 40 S&W and 9 is not noticeable. If your choice is between 40 S&W and 9mm, remember, both these rounds are high pressure (30k+ PSI) as opposed to a 45ACP (16k PSI). The well known kick, flip, snap of the 40S&W can be a bitch in controlling the gun. The recoil from high pressure gases pushing a 180 grain bullet is nasty, whereas the recoil from low pressure gas pushing a 185 grain bullet (45ACP) isn't nearly as nasty. As a hand loader, I download the 40 S&W by using a mild recoil powder which helps in the control of that beast cartridge. In a small gun like the MK40, hang on if you buy commercial ammo. If you are new into shooting, I would go with the 9mm over the 40 S&W in a small gun like the MK40.

Keep us posted on your choice. These Kahr guns are terrific and well engineered. Justin Kahr really figured out how to make a semiauto.
 

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Welcome to the forum.

It would be hard for someone to give you advice on choosing MK9 vs MK40 because recoil is a very subjective thing. Assuming that is what you are undecided about. What would not bother you might very much bother me. Or visa versa.

Here are my two matte finishes after I spent about an hour on each with Mother's polish. Brightens them up, leaving them somewhere between the matte and elite finishes. Scarpia is right in that Kahr's polished surface is nothing like hard chrome. And that's not necessarily a bad thing because a finish like that is very hard to protect and care for.

PM45 after:
Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Gun accessory Everyday carry


P9 Before
Air gun Trigger Gun barrel Gun accessory Airsoft gun

After
Green Air gun Trigger Wood Line


My Elite:
Everyday carry Gun barrel Gun accessory Air gun Trigger
 

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I'm considering buying a Kahr MK. However, I really can't decide if I should go with the 40 or the 9. Also, none of the LGS here have any and you can't really appreciate the difference by looking at the website. Does anyone have any photos showing the difference between the matte finish and the polished finish? Also, between the regular sights and the night sights?
I also see that the 40 is about .04" thicker than the 9, is this noticeable?
So, what was your decision between the MK40 and MK9? I have since taken possession of my K9 Elite '98. The K9 does have that hefty, all metal, feel which is the reason I wanted a K9. I have put many rounds down range with it, no issues. It fits my hand perfectly, all things considered she's a winner. I thought about a MK40 too but that's a lot of recoil in such a small piece plus being just 5+1 is an issue for me and that 6+1 hideous magazine extension is a deal breaker, no thanks.

My Kahrs, CW45, K9 Elite '98, PM9. The shine of the polished K9 Elite might be enhanced by the photography but it does show a difference between the matt and polished finish.
Photograph Air gun Trigger Wood Grey
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So, what was your decision between the MK40 and MK9? I have since taken possession of my K9 Elite '98. The K9 does have that hefty, all metal, feel which is the reason I wanted a K9. I have put many rounds down range with it, no issues. It fits my hand perfectly, all things considered she's a winner. I thought about a MK40 too but that's a lot of recoil in such a small piece plus being just 5+1 is an issue for me and that 6+1 hideous magazine extension is a deal breaker, no thanks.

My Kahrs, CW45, K9 Elite '98, PM9. The shine of the polished K9 Elite might be enhanced by the photography but it does show a difference between the matt and polished finish.
View attachment 17024
I'm definitely going with the Elite, but still undecided between the 40 and 9 because of what you mentioned, it's only a 5 round mag with the 40.
 

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I'm definitely going with the Elite, but still undecided between the 40 and 9 because of what you mentioned, it's only a 5 round mag with the 40.



I'd go with the 40s&w. I do not own any polymer frame Kahrs, but I do own five steel frame Kahrs and counting. My next buy will be a T9 and T40. I currently own two K40s and one K9, MK9, and MK40.

WEIGHT AND SIZE:

What I find odd is that many will ding the MK40 and the K40 as being too small and light for the calibler; however, the Glock 23 which is the 40s&w size and version of the Glock 19 weighs LESS than the MK40. That takes care of the weight, but as far as size goes, you can get a full grip on both without sacrificing concealablity via the use of a pinky extension. To recap, you can get a full grip and the MK40 weighs as much as as some double stack Compacts.

RECOIL AND HIGH PRESSURE:
40s&w gets a bad rap because people regurgitate what they hear.


This is a chart of the most popular and common 9mm self defense loads. Look at the velocity numbers and expansion diameters.


This is a chart of all the most popular and common 40s&w self defense loads. If you compare the velocity between the two, you'll see that in many cases, the 9mm loads have higher velocities. What is also funny is that people who shoot the light weight only 16 once polymer Kahr CM9 or PM9 will probably experience MORE or similar recoil in comparison to the 25 once all steel Kahr MK40, yet they will tell others to stir away from anything 40cal.


Here is 45acp. If you compare it to the smaller diameter 40s&w loads, the velocity is only marginally lower, about the same, or even higher depending on the manufacturer and load.

My point is, there is no set in stone rule that 40s&w is more snappy than 9mm or 45acp like many like to incorrectly claim. It all depends on the type of powder being used, the number of bullet grains, and other factors aka it all depends on what ammo you go with. With the popular 180gr Federal HST round in 40s&w, you get a velocity similar or less than 9mm, with better intermediate barrier penetration, and larger expansion. With the popular 180gr Federal HST round in 40s&w, you also get similar or ever so slightly more velocity as 45acp, but you still get decent expansion, good barrier penetration, and more capacity. In many cases, the 180gr Federal HST expands bigger than the 200+ gr 45acp...

CAPACITY:
The MK9 is 6+1 (7) or 7+1 (8). The MK40 is 5+1 (6) or 6+1 (7). There is only one round difference between the two. The MK40 also accepts the 7 round Kahr T40 magazine. I carry the 5 round in the mag with a 7 or 8 round backup. It's a tool, it will be used to save my life, and it will be concealed from me and everyone else the majority of the time. I am not worried about what the mag looks like should I have to do a mag change.

AVAILABILITY:
The last and final reason why I suggest that you get the MK40 is that Kahr is doing away with most of their 40s&w pistols. You might not get the opportunity to easily buy one NIB in the future. Get the MK40 now being that you can always get a MK9 in the future if you so choose.

40S&W is an excellent round that has lost favor because people bad mouth it, tell others to stay away from it, claim 9mm preform just as good, and that it's very "snappy." Different guns handle recoil differently. You also have a lot of people with zero experience shooting 40s&w it a particular pistol that will tell others that the recoil will be to snappy... The reality is that whether we are talking about 9mm, 40, or 45, it's all relative to what make and model ammo you areshooting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·



I'd go with the 40s&w. I do not own any polymer frame Kahrs, but I do own five steel frame Kahrs and counting. My next buy will be a T9 and T40. I currently own two K40s and one K9, MK9, and MK40.

WEIGHT AND SIZE:

What I find odd is that many will ding the MK40 and the K40 as being too small and light for the calibler; however, the Glock 23 which is the 40s&w size and version of the Glock 19 weighs LESS than the MK40. That takes care of the weight, but as far as size goes, you can get a full grip on both without sacrificing concealablity via the use of a pinky extension. To recap, you can get a full grip and the MK40 weighs as much as as some double stack Compacts.

RECOIL AND HIGH PRESSURE:
40s&w gets a bad rap because people regurgitate what they hear.


This is a chart of the most popular and common 9mm self defense loads. Look at the velocity numbers and expansion diameters.


This is a chart of all the most popular and common 40s&w self defense loads. If you compare the velocity between the two, you'll see that in manu cases, the 9mm loads have higher velocities. What is also funny is that people who shoot the light weight only 16 once polymer Kahr CM9 or PM9 will probably experience MORE or similar recoil in comparison to the 25 once all steel Kahr MK40, yet they will tell others to stir away from anything 40cal.


Here is 45acp. If you compare it to the smaller diameter 40s&w loads, the velocity is only marginally lower, about the same, or even higher depending on the manufacturer and load.

My point is, there is no set in stone rule that 40s&w is more snappy than 9mm or 45acp like many lime to claim. It all depends on the type of powered being used, the number of bullet grains, and other factors aka it all depends on what ammo you go with. With the popular 180gr Federal HST round in 40s&w, you get a velocity similar or less than 9mm, with better intermediate barrier penetration, and larger expansion. With the popular 180gr Federal HST round in 40s&w, you also get similar or ever so slightly more velocity as 45acp, but you still get decent expansion, good barrier penetration, and more capacity.

CAPACITY:
The MK9 is 6+1 (7) or 7+1 (8). The MK40 is 5+1 (6) or 6+1 (7). There is only one round difference between the two. The MK40 also accepts the 7 round Kahr T40 magazine.

AVAILABILITY:
The last and final reason why I suggest that you get the MK40 is that Kahr is doing away with most of their 40s&w pistols. You might not get the opportunity to easily buy one NIB in the future. Get the MK40 now being that you can always get a MK9 in the future if you so choose.
Yeah, that's why I tried getting a new MK40 but unfortunately I was too late. All new stock is long one now; only available used at this point.
 

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"Lucky Gunner" is the go-to web site for ballistics data. They use typical carry guns, not 4 inch test barrels.

Anyhow, the famous 'snap' of the 40 S&W is easily controlled by using hand loads with a lighter charge and mild recoil powder. My 40S&W carry loads are the Hornady 155XTP bullets with usually Alliant Green Dot powder. I reload at the low end of the 40 S&W range. The felt recoil of that load (to me) is not much different than a 9mm yet has more stopping power (down range energy) than say a typical 124 grain 9mm bullet. Agreed, most 40 S&W gun capacity is less than an equivalent sized 9mm frame, that is a trade-off the buyer must decide.

My EDC's in 40S&W are the Taurus PT940, S&W Shield 40, Springfield XD-Mod 2 Sub Compact, Ruger SR40 and SR40C (I don't always need a small carry piece). My go to war guns in 40S&W is the Taurus PT101 and Tristar C100 (CZ 75 clone). The loads for these big metal guns are near max charge with 180 grain Speer Gold Dots. BTW, my carry piece today is the K9 Elite '98, with Hornady 115XTP's and Alliant Bullseye, if I had K40 that would be my choice.
 

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Kahr makes carry guns, self-defense firearms! Not target pistols, even though they are very accurate, not duty guns, not hunting pistols, they are concealed carry self-defense weapons!!!!!!!! So, carry the most gun you can handle, the 40S&W is without question a better defense caliber than a 9MM, if capacity is an issue, then carry a spare magazine. I have a PM9 that I purchased for my wife, but she has great difficulty working the slide so she has a Colt Detective Special and I took the PM9. It's a great gun, had I purchased it for me I would have gotten the 40 but the PM9 will get the job done. You aren't under gunned with a 9MM but a 40S&W is a bit better.
 

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"Lucky Gunner" is the go-to web site for ballistics data. They use typical carry guns, not 4 inch test barrels.

Anyhow, the famous 'snap' of the 40 S&W is easily controlled by using hand loads with a lighter charge and mild recoil powder. My 40S&W carry loads are the Hornady 155XTP bullets with usually Alliant Green Dot powder. I reload at the low end of the 40 S&W range. The felt recoil of that load (to me) is not much different than a 9mm yet has more stopping power (down range energy) than say a typical 124 grain 9mm bullet. Agreed, most 40 S&W gun capacity is less than an equivalent sized 9mm frame, that is a trade-off the buyer must decide.

My EDC's in 40S&W are the Taurus PT940, S&W Shield 40, Springfield XD-Mod 2 Sub Compact, Ruger SR40 and SR40C (I don't always need a small carry piece). My go to war guns in 40S&W is the Taurus PT101 and Tristar C100 (CZ 75 clone). The loads for these big metal guns are near max charge with 180 grain Speer Gold Dots. BTW, my carry piece today is the K9 Elite '98, with Hornady 115XTP's and Alliant Bullseye, if I had K40 that would be my choice.
They use 3" barrels as well in their testing of 9mm, 40s&w, 38spc, and 357 testing that I viewed.
 

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There is no such thing as stopping power in standard handgun calibers...only shot placement matters...the rate of expiration may vary depending on shot placement especially in the smaller calibers...from my duty experience...so shoot what you feel comfortable with & can control in high stress situations - including rapid fire...night fire is bonus training...
 

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As usual Bill gets right to the heart of the matter. A well placed shot, whether it be from a .22 or a .45 will bring down a bad guy. And that's very important in today's world of drug-fueled people walking around. Like zombies it takes good shot placement to stop some of them, regardless of what the size of the projectile might be.
 

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There is no such thing as stopping power in standard handgun calibers...only shot placement matters...the rate of expiration may vary depending on shot placement especially in the smaller calibers...from my duty experience...so shoot what you feel comfortable with & can control in high stress situations - including rapid fire...night fire is bonus training...
As usual Bill gets right to the heart of the matter. A well placed shot, whether it be from a .22 or a .45 will bring down a bad guy. And that's very important in today's world of drug-fueled people walking around. Like zombies it takes good shot placement to stop some of them, regardless of what the size of the projectile might be.
Yup, everyone else including the military and law enforcement got it all wrong. Caliber and the power of said caliber doesn't matter at all. It's all shot placement. Everyone should do away with all calibers above 22lr. 22lr for self defense and offense, hunting, etc.:sneaky:
 

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Yup, everyone else including the military and law enforcement got it all wrong. Caliber and the power of said caliber doesn't matter at all. It's all shot placement. Everyone should do away with all calibers above 22lr. 22lr for self defense and offense, hunting, etc.:sneaky:
From my big city LEO patrol & tactical assignments only working the hot / worst crime areas, I've seen a lot of fatalities caused by small caliber (a lot in .22 short / LR, .25 &.32 ACP) to someone who survived a hit to the head with a .44 mag (intelligence didn't suffer & was back out on the street later stealing, etc.), not to mention those from shotguns & other flying / striking objects...shot placement is paramount - the same as with my heavy long barrel tactical team assignment to make critical shot placements...your experience may vary...
 

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From my big city LEO patrol & tactical assignments only working the hot / worst crime areas, I've seen a lot of fatalities caused by small caliber (a lot in .22 short / LR, .25 &.32 ACP) to someone who survived a hit to the head with a .44 mag (intelligence didn't suffer & was back out on the street later stealing, etc.), not to mention those from shotguns & other flying / striking objects...shot placement is paramount - the same as with my heavy long barrel tactical team assignment to make critical shot placements...your experience may vary...
I agree. Are you carrying a 22lr for self defense? It's less expensive, holds more rounds, and all that matters is shot placement, so I am sure that's what you carry.

IMHO, the US military should drop the Sig M17 and M18 as well as the M4 and instead issue handguns and assault rifles in 22lr.

I've seen a lot of fatalities caused by small caliber (a lot in .22 short / LR, .25 &.32 ACP) to someone who survived a hit to the head with a .44 mag (intelligence didn't suffer & was back out on the street later stealing, etc.),
I agree 110%. I would like to add that if those same specific and exact people who where hit in the head with a 44 magnum that survived were hit with a 22lr-.32acp, they'd more than likely would be taking a dirt nap instead of having had survived.
 

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I agree. Are you carrying a 22lr for self defense? It's less expensive, holds more rounds, and all that matters is shot placement, so I am sure that's what you carry.
NO...rimfires aren't reliable for SD...though some of my fellow officers did carry .22 mag for backup in particular roles due to carry size back in the day...have you ever seen the internal results of a hit from a .22 especially after it fragments / splatters / rattles around / ricochets from striking hard objects...but again, the rate of expiration / death may vary due to shot placement regardless of caliber - from on-view experience...

I don't recall in history of anyone complaining about Wild Bill's .36 cal 1851 Navy Colts not being sufficient enough (about the same ballistic performance of a .380 cartridge round)...
 

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NO...rimfires aren't reliable for SD...though some of my fellow officers did carry .22 mag for backup in particular roles due to carry size back in the day...have you ever seen the internal results of a hit from a .22 especially after it fragments / splatters / rattles around / ricochets from striking hard objects...but again, the rate of expiration / death may vary due to shot placement regardless of caliber - from on-view experience...

I don't recall in history of anyone complaining about Wild Bill's .36 cal 1851 Navy Colts not being sufficient enough (about the same ballistic performance of a .380 cartridge round)...
Exactly! Great minds think alike. By the way. What are you EDCing?
 

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Primarily pocket carry a Kahr CM9 (shorts / slacks / jacket pocket or use a simple OWB slide holster)... :)
Why? A Ruger LCP 2 in 22lr. 11.2 oz and 10+1. Ruger has great customer service.

Kahr CM9 is bigger, heavier (much more so when loaded), the Kahr warranty by most accounts is not better than Ruger's de facto warranty, follow up shots are fasting and more accurate, so on and so forth. Why are you carrying a 9mm? There is self defense 22lr ammo that does not suffer from the unreliable issue. I say you get rid of that 9mm now. Why waste money on expensive 9mm ammo? You could even shoot and train more without going broke. I can suggest some other 22lr pistols and self defense ammo so you can dump that 9mm and any other 380acp or higher calibers you own.

How long before you get rid of them. Logically, doesn't make much sense to keep them.
 
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